Hey everyone, it was nice meeting those of you that I did. I didn't get to talk to you as much as I would have liked because of the "instruction" in between sessions. And then I had to get out of there quickly to get home for another engagement. Next time I'll have to pit right beside you guys. I did get to talk to Kyle's dad quite a bit though because he started riding in my group towards the end. Very cool guy; maybe I can talk my dad into getting out there too!!

However....I was not all that thrilled with how the day was run, and I wanted to see what you guys that run with NESBA and other groups thought about Fasttrax. The event as a whole, the caliber of riders, actual track time ect...

Overall I had a good time, but I was disappointed with a few things, the most major was that the Intermediate "Instruction" group was forced to ride with the beginners. I bumped up to Intermediate because at the last day my dad could have passed us on his Harley Dresser one handed with my Mom on the back. Not only was it dangerous for us to be flying by the Beginner group, sometimes at literally twice the speed; it had to have been a terrible experience for them.

Anyway, enough rambling...what did everyone else think? And is anyone going to their $80 discount this coming weekend at Nelson?

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Ben
#535

if you want structured and good control, ride with NESBA
STT is good as well, its like NESBA, but the atmosphere is more relaxed and the riders are "slower" overall in comparison with NESBA's group. NESBA's groups are def the fastest groups i've ridden

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LETS GO PRAIRIE DOGGIN!!!!!!!!!YEEE HAWWWW!!!
WERA & NESBA #45

Here's my take...
I'll start off by saying that any day at the track where everyone comes home with themselves and their bikes in one piece is a great day. I've now ridden with NESBA, STT and FASTTRAX and honestly there is a reason why NESBA is the biggest org out there, it's the best group to ride with, period.
Yesterday was more or less organized confusion. I did not see what was going on in B and I "instructional" but whatever it was it looked painfully slow. I was also completely baffled by the number of crashes in that group considering how much control they claimed to apply to the riders there. I know Paul was pretty frustrated with what was going on and honestly he should have just been riding the regular I group. From the little that I saw of you Ben you should have done the same. I think the only person the B/I instructional group was of benefit for was Andy. It was probably a good way to introduce a brand new rider to the track - that is outside of the mayhem it seemed to turn into toward the end of the day.
I also don't think that their "regular" I group was that great of an idea. Guys running in that group really need instruction and they need it from instructors riding along side them at speed and not the idiotically slow pace of the I instructional group. These are the guys that are just starting to figure shit out and pick up the pace and they can really benefit from competent feedback.
Now on to FASTTRAX A group... There were riders in our group that would not be qualified for a bump out of NESBA's B group. There were people on the track that I'm sure were running in the 1:17-1:20 range as their BEST lap ever. While most of the passing was more or less clean there were some really bone headed passes made particularly by 2 individuals who seemed to feel their owned the track. This was the first time I have ever said anything to a fellow rider about the way they were riding. 1 guy just about killed me and another rider going up the hill in T5, running off into the grass in the process and then he tried to go 3 wide through T8 and almost spooking the rider I was passing into me and almost ending up in the grass again. I'm pretty sure none of the guys in our pit have seen me that pissed off before. To his credit he did find me after the day was over and apologized to me.
I know FASTTRAX bills itself as "race organization" - I think sort of the flunky version of a proper race org like WERA or CCS. But when they put on a track day they need to get their shit together. The whole thing from the meeting on was organized mayhem. They spent more time in the meeting on prayer than on going over track procedures and etiquette. I've never been a big fan of NESBA's morning meetings but now I really understand why they take the time at every track day to go over what is expected of the riders and what the rules are. FASTRAX did not even seem to know what the tech inspection rueles were for different groups in the morning.
Ben, I'm guessing you've never ridden with NESBA but you really should give them a try. It is far more structured but it's a much better overall experience. You will get to run a realistic pace even in B, get tons of feedback from excellent instructors and have a great time. It's just a far, far better track day with them. The only upside I see to FASTRAX is that it's cheap. NESBA charges $175 a day at Beaver but you get into the track free so it's only $40or so more for a far better track day with a far better organization.

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Mike is pretty much spot on.

The few things that stood out to me were...

1. Guys performing tech inspection didn't even know what needed inspected, especially the safety wiring rules they have on their own website.

2. All groups (including intermediate) except for the instructional groups were allowed to pass anywhere, including the inside of corners.

3. They are extremely slow. It took a minimum of 15 mins to clean up a wreck, even if it was simply picking up the bike and putting on the crash truck. Usually the crash truck didn't even get out onto the track for 5-10 mins after the wreck. It also took forever for them to line up the instructional groups and go out.

Overall I was not impressed at all with them. I was following some of the CRs in the advanced group and some of them were riding unpredictably and out of control. They didn't seem to have any clue about the lines around the track and body position. If they don't know, how can they expect to teach anyone else.

I wouldn't rule out riding with them again, but they won't be my first choice.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Mike, it was really hard to know how I was going out there because I literally got 0 critiques from any of the "Instructors". The only reference point I had was that for the most part I wasn't getting passed unless I got hung up behind traffic and didn't want to make a pass until I knew I wasn't going to get run off the track. That didn't seem to be the case with others though.

The comment about the CR's performance I can attest to first hand. Twice I was making a pass into 8 when one of them decided to go 3 wide . But even worse, the first session of the day I was first in line behind the first CR, as we're leaving pit lane he leans to the right and gooses it, back end slides then snaps up and he basically does a low speed high side right in front of me, I had to run into the grass to miss him and the bike, we hadn't even touched the track for the day and the freaking instructor bins it . I saw him later, he and his bike were out for the day with his arm in a sling and a whole bunch of damage to the bike. He claims he was looking back at us and he hit a puddle he may have hit a puddle, but I know he was not looking back at us. I think it had more to do with his cold (from sitting on pit for so long lining up) track tires/wet track/heavy throttle hand. Then I think twice more throughout the day there were crashes on pit lane. That is just embarrassing.

No I haven't done a day with NESBA, but from the sounds of it, I'm looking forward to an overall better experience. As stated before I had a good time, I love how my R6 handles and its got plenty of power for me. I'm feeling as comfortable on it after just 2 trackdays as I did on my old gixxer.

Oh and I did get to see the first Advanced session after lunch break; the bikes that I recognized from this group did seem to be flying around the track Maybe with enough NESBA days I could keep up for a corner or two!

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Ben
#535

That wreck really shock Andy up, had to be a really bad thing to see someone that's supposed to know WTF he's doing go and bin it in T Zero on the first lap out - if it wasn't so sad and unprofessional it would be fucking hilarious.
So far as NESBA vs. FastTrax - the CR's are different animals there or at least it seem so to me. NESBA's B is pretty much as fast as what was in I on Saturday - BUT - it is far more ordered and controlled.
Look at it this way, I just got bumped to I in NESBA and I could outrun the majority of the guys in A on Saturday. NESBA does not really allow people to sign up for whatever group they choose and there is CR supervision in B and I groups, always. NESBA "promotes" or bumps as it's usually called people from group to group.
NESBA's B is pretty quick at times but the rules are very strict. You can only pass when the bike is straight up and down, never in a turn and only in designated straights. Typically at Beaver this means you can pass on the front straight, between T4 and T5, T8 and T9 and T9 and T10. If the group is riding well they typically allow passing between T7 and T8 in the afternoon. If people break the rules they sit or get told to go home. NESBA seems to "get it" that it's just a track day and not the last day of the MotoGP season with the championship on the line.
Inside passes are not allowed until you are riding A and none of the guys you saw in our pits that were riding A on Saturday are fast or skilled enough to get the A bump with NESBA. It's a pretty exclusive club, only one regular here is a NESBA A rider and he's turning 1's around Beaver. NESBA's I can pass anywhere including in the turns but outside only, inside passes are not allowed.
Bumps don't only come with speed but also with how clean someone rides. By the time you get to I you can make that outside pass with a degree of cenfidence since the ability to hold a line and be predictable and smooth is as important as how fast you go in order to get the bump.
Why all the rules? Well to control the mayhem you saw Saturday and also to get people to concentrate on their riding rather than passing the guy in front of them. CR's do not run groups like B/I instructional with FastTrax rather they ride among us and work with individuals throughout the session. Riders stop at the track exit to the pits and almost everyone talks to the CR's after every session. CR's will drag you around the track, show you lines, body position, brake makers, turn exits, etc. Too boot most are pretty cool guys (and occasionally gals). If you look for feedback you WILL get it and you will get faster and hopefully safer.
We'll be at Beaver with NESBA in two weeks, you should come along and see what you think for yourself.

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Yeah, I can see how that wreck would shake someone up who is new to it all. It had me worried about the wet track much more than I probably would have.

I'm amazed at the speed difference! But I like the idea of them bumping you instead of each individual just picking. I noticed on NESBA's website they have a free Intro group with 2 free sessions in the morning. It says they run with the Beginner's but is it like a slow beginner group, or the same pace as the Beginner? That might be a cheap way to get some more track time this season even though it's only two sessions. Then I could just hang out with you guys the rest of the day.

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Ben
#535

the intro group just rides with B and at the same pace, pretty much like any other B rider. just do the day, or the weekend for that matter. nesba memeberships are 12 months so if you join now it will be good till this time next year.
there will be at least 3 other B guys in our pit that weekend.

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www.WickedRacing.com - Go Fast Parts & Gear for Riders and Their Motorcycles
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i was making an outside pass on a control rider with STT and he ran me off the track between 8 and 9 wide open in 5th gear

ask bacolmm, he was behind us and saw it

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LETS GO PRAIRIE DOGGIN!!!!!!!!!YEEE HAWWWW!!!
WERA & NESBA #45

I bet that hurt!

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Ben
#535