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 Post subject: TheBellyPan.com
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:09 pm 
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NESBA/Kubricky's new project - some pretty good articles there: http://thebellypan.com

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 Post subject: Re: TheBellyPan.com
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:22 pm 
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Pretty cool site. I did a little reading over there. What do the trackwhore peeps say about trail braking? There are definitely 2 different schools of thought on the topic (with fast guys on each side). Freddy Spencer and Nick I are huge on trail braking, Keith Code, not so much.

I read a discussion on WERA that basically said trail braking is necessary in racing to defend your line, but running fast laps alone (like qualifying) it's not necessary. That argument makes sense to me.

I don't trail brake very often. There are some corners that seem to demand it. I was trail braking a lot into turn #11 at CMP. It was a lot of fun, and probably my favorite turn on the track, but it's the only one I was trailing into. I also do it when I make a mistake and go in too hot, but it's not usually in my plan. What do you guys all do?


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 Post subject: Re: TheBellyPan.com
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:36 pm 
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bacolmm wrote:
There are definitely 2 different schools of thought on the topic (with fast guys on each side). Freddy Spencer and Nick I are huge on trail braking, Keith Code, not so much.


I"ve done levels 1 - 4 with CSS and trail braking is somewhat absent from the curriculum. CSS seems to focus more on the throttle. When cornering CSS theory is get back on the throttle ASAP and apply proper throttle control throughout.

Ithink they see trail braking is an advanced technique to be applied when you are looking to make up smaller amounts of time maybe 1/2 second or so.

I need to look in to it a little more but I think there is some disagreement on the subject of front suspension upon corner entry as well.
- Trail braking theory targets a loaded front suspension
- CSS teaches to unload the front suspension


bacolmm wrote:
I read a discussion on WERA that basically said trail braking is necessary in racing to defend your line, but running fast laps alone (like qualifying) it's not necessary. That argument makes sense to me.


That's interesting and I think I agree - this seems to align with CSS theory of maintaining cornering speed and to make time with the throttle on.


bacolmm wrote:
I don't trail brake very often...I also do it when I make a mistake and go in too hot, but it's not usually in my plan.


Me too for the most part - one turn for me that comes to mind is #1 @ NJMP Thunderbolt.

It's funny as I have been doing some thinking about this skill lately trying to better understand it and identify turns that would be good candidates to apply it.

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 Post subject: Re: TheBellyPan.com
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:28 am 
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RideorGolf wrote:
bacolmm wrote:
There are definitely 2 different schools of thought on the topic (with fast guys on each side). Freddy Spencer and Nick I are huge on trail braking, Keith Code, not so much.


I"ve done levels 1 - 4 with CSS and trail braking is somewhat absent from the curriculum. CSS seems to focus more on the throttle. When cornering CSS theory is get back on the throttle ASAP and apply proper throttle control throughout.

Ithink they see trail braking is an advanced technique to be applied when you are looking to make up smaller amounts of time maybe 1/2 second or so.

I need to look in to it a little more but I think there is some disagreement on the subject of front suspension upon corner entry as well.
- Trail braking theory targets a loaded front suspension
- CSS teaches to unload the front suspension


bacolmm wrote:
I read a discussion on WERA that basically said trail braking is necessary in racing to defend your line, but running fast laps alone (like qualifying) it's not necessary. That argument makes sense to me.


That's interesting and I think I agree - this seems to align with CSS theory of maintaining cornering speed and to make time with the throttle on.


bacolmm wrote:
I don't trail brake very often...I also do it when I make a mistake and go in too hot, but it's not usually in my plan.


Me too for the most part - one turn for me that comes to mind is #1 @ NJMP Thunderbolt.

It's funny as I have been doing some thinking about this skill lately trying to better understand it and identify turns that would be good candidates to apply it.


I would also think that trail braking would be counter to Code's teaching on quick steering. To trail brake you have to reduce brake pressure as you increase lean angle. There's no time for that when you steer as quickly as Code instructs...


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 Post subject: Re: TheBellyPan.com
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:51 pm 
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I find myself sort of unconciously trail braking much of the time. I really don't think that it adds anything at my skill/speed to do so and probably adds to the likelyhood of tucking my front end one of these days. I have a tendency to chop the throttle closed on entry which has pretty much the same effect as trail braking into the turn.
I'm not entirely sure if the trail braking bit is a bad habit but I am sure that chopping on entry certainly is :-)

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